I find this debate necessary. The same thing happened for Iraq and now it is happening for Afghanistan. We NEED this discussion and we need this debate to be loud. There is no other way to move towards a clear strategy than to put pressure on the decision makers thru a public debate. The more “heavy” the participants (Gen. Kurlak) the better.

What can be done now, to make all the difference? I think we all agree that “our” current vision of victory is just not attainable. We do not speak the same language. We do not want or need the same things. It is nearly impossible to even have a technical conversation with a rural Afghan about things such as governance, a central governement, infrastructure development, a juducial system, etc…and believe me – it is not becuase they are not intelligent people – it is becuase our cultures, beliefs, morals, values and even language are such huge barriers to overcome. I can see some strong tribal leader in the Konar valley saying,”Come back and speak to my people in a hundred years when you have seen what we have seen and lived as we have lived. Living with them, becoming a part of their culture is the only way to understand them. But do we have that kind of patience? That kind of time? The answer is staring us in the face. Deal with the tribes. For the long-term. Build relationships. They key to “winning” the war in Afghanistan is not “defeating” the taliban, but “winning” the tribes. Eventually, the tribes will decide who will lead them. It has happened in the past and it will happen again in the future. With or wothout us. We should empower this social structure, not be afraid of it.

Karl…just a guy who knows a guy.

Pull out the ‘Big’ Army(and Marines) and let the Spec Ops folks have a free hand?

Kipling had it right.

Tim, Ex-lots of things